In today’s episode, recorded Wednesday 11 June 2025: AGM, unions meeting with the vice chancellor about the review of the university’s plan, and changes to the university’s trans policy

With Jenny Rivas Perez, Rachel Walls and Alan Smith.

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Transcript

Rachel

Welcome to the LeedsUCU podcast, for members of the University of Leeds branch of the University and College Union.

Alan

In today’s branch news, our recent Leeds UCU annual general meeting.

Rachel

The joint unions’ recent meeting with vice chancellor, and this includes touching on the realignment of faculties, potential for reduction in academic-related and professional managerial staff, identifying areas of academic activity to stop doing, finances, and international student recruitment.

Alan

And also we’ll be talking about changes to the university’s trans policy and the issues of consultation around that.

[brief music]

Rachel

I’m Rachel Walls, one of your podcast hosts. I’m also a UCU department rep for Lifelong Learning, branch committee member and saxophone or clarinet player in our occasional picket line band the Orchestrike!

Alan

And I’m Alan Smith, co-host for this podcast, and the branch administrator and organiser. We thought it would be useful for members of the branch to have an alternative channel for getting your local news because reading long emails or website posts is not everyone’s first choice.

Rachel

So we’re here to be a friendly voice from the UCU University of Leeds branch to keep you in better touch with what is going on, such as what the elected officers are working on and what opportunities there are for you to get involved in UCU discussions, socialising, activism and decision making. And for today’s podcast, which we’re recording on 13th of June 2025. We have – I was just thinking that doesn’t sound like today’s date

Alan

Sorry, that’s the day we’re going to publish it!

Rachel

Today’s podcast, which we’re recording on the 11th of June 2025, we have Jenny Rivas to give us an update on branch news.

Alan

Hi, Jenny. We had our LeedsUCU AGM. Can you tell us more about what happened?

Jenny

Well, at the AGM we elected a new committee. So we have a full committee this year with, many new people came forward to be committee members and also some people have not come forward because they’re retiring to do other things in the coming year. But we’re not letting them go just yet. So they’ve still got some work to do over the summer. But so there’s been a few changes of personnel on the committee, but. And on that front, we’ve also got new officers too. So I have to say I’m president-elect, so we definitely have a President this year which is different to the past year. And we’ve also got a new vice president as well. In fact, we’ve got we’ve got a full cohort of officers for the coming year apart from one position, which is the campaign officers role, it’s a really important role to the to the branch. So at the next committee meeting. We’ll be discussing exactly what we’re going to do about that situation and how we’re going to get ourselves a new campaign officer as well because and the time scales for that. So there will be more news coming on that front soon, but it’s something for the committee to think about first.

Rachel

I believe that officers have just met alongside the other campus unions’ representatives and the VC to discuss some important proposed changes, such as realignment of our faculties at the university. Can you tell us more about that?

Jenny

Yes, so this was part of discussions about the White Paper and what’s been published in there. So plans for the for the university. We had quite a detailed discussion and in fact I’ve just come out of that discussion a couple of hours ago, so I’m actually still sort of like mulling over what we’ve been told. So we were actually we actually started off talking with the VC about how in the White Paper it’s – there, there’s not a lot of detail. There are a lot of plans, but not details of how those plans will be scoped out. So we spent about an hour going through that trying to find out a bit more about that. The VC though was quite forthright in saying that you know that a lot of these things haven’t yet been decided, so it’s going to be a process of a couple of months before they actually start scoping out the detail there, and we were discussing the worry, actually, that there is for a lot of people on campus, in that gap between the larger plans and the detail. But we did ask questions about a number of things. So one of the things you’re right that we asked about was this realignment of the faculties and that is coming out as something that looks like a reduction in the number of faculties as far as we can tell from the discussions that we had. And so we were told that they would be putting a plan together for council in July. We also talked about reductions in the number of professional staff. And this KPI 8B, which is sitting, sits alongside the university strategy and has been there since 2020 and that looks to reduce the ratio of professional services staff as they put it in the KPI, to academic staff to 51.8%. It’s currently sitting at 60%. If you look at the HEFCE numbers at the moment and do the sums a bit of not-that-simple algebra, but a bit of algebra, you’ll find that it’s round about a reduction of 1500 FTE, so. I asked the VC about that. She couldn’t give any assurances that no jobs would be lost. She was also not willing to say what it would look like getting to that that KPI or confirm that they would necessarily go all the way to that number on that KPI either. She’s very much saying that all is still to be decided in the next few months.

Rachel

So it sounds like there’s an impact, there could be an impact on professional, managerial, academic related staff. Are there any other notable areas that they’re looking at?

Jenny

Yeah. So the White Paper talks about stopping academic activity when it isn’t beneficial. And it also talks about a matrix tool and I asked about that and apparently this is also based on the strategy KPIs, and they will be using that as a tool to identify areas of academic activity to stop doing. So I think it was – we had an hour with the VC, I’d like to know more about that. I’m sure others would. So if members are going to meetings with the VC where the VC is talking about the White Paper, I think this is an area that perhaps other questions should be pursued and certainly the officers will be writing to the VC for more details about that as well.

Rachel

So it could be quite alarming news, but on the other hand it’s good to know they haven’t made any decisions yet, so we

Jenny

Yes, well, everything’s still up in the air. I think the main message that we were getting across is that they are extremely worried about the international student numbers and that they’re waiting to see how those pan out over the next few months and that they were extremely shocked by the by the government’s announcement of a student levy and what impact that will have on the finances going forward, so that has also been thrown into the mix about the planning over the next few months.

Alan

Can I just ask – and we can just cut this out if it doesn’t make sense: the metaphor of Green paper and white paper. In the government, the government puts forward a vague “we’re thinking of doing this kind of thing” and that’s the green Paper. And they put that out for consultation and people send in comments. And from that they draw up a white paper, which is legislative proposals, you know, in detail. Sometimes they ask for more comments, but you’ve got detail there that you can actually work with and talk about. My impression from this is that that hasn’t really happened at all and we still haven’t got the level of detail that anyone needs to make any – well, for any meaningful consultation.

Jenny

No, there’s no detail there. There are big plans there. There’s a lot of possibilities that are dependent, I think on finances going forward. You know, obviously the university has this business model where they never actually know what the student numbers will be until September, until the students actually turn up, but also it would be good to see more detail on a lot of other fronts as well that of things that are in the White Paper. So, more detail on things like the simplification of processes and governance. The reduction of committees, what kind of committees? And also, thinking about things that support our reputation, so I’d like to know more about the plans for what happens at a city and regional level, and if there are to be changes to the size and shape of the university, how does that actually affect the city region as well? There remain, I mean there are, a lot of words in here about how important the city and the region are to the university. But actually, as one of the largest employers in the area, that’s also a something which is quite important, so I’d quite like more detail actually about that. If for instance, we were to stop teaching particular subjects within the university, how does that affect the local region? Does that actually mean that there will be nobody teaching there. I mean we started talking about that with the VC this afternoon. I did ask that question and she had talked about perhaps that there would be some that other regional universities been talking to each other about how to … How to …

Rachel

Fill the gap.

Jenny

Fill the gap. That’s the word that I was looking for. Yes. So. But I would like more detail on all of this because like you say, the government puts out something like a white paper. There is detail there that you can say “Yes, I agree with this” or “no, that might not work” or “it would work better if you tweaked it like this”. It’s very difficult to pin that down with the document that we have in front of us and there’s only 8 weeks to really be consulted on that going forward. So it, it does feel like: how are how are we actually going to get there in September with this new strategy?

Alan

So how meaningful is the consultation or is it just making people feel they’ve been consulted to some extent?

Jenny

Yes

Alan

OK, so on an entirely different subject then the university recently changed its trans policy. As I understand it, not because of the Supreme Court ruling, but it made changes without decent consultation and we have concerns about it, so can tell us a bit more?

Jenny

We did, so, we had word a few days before they changed the trans policy that it was going to change and for a number of weeks, you know, people had been pointing to the fact that there was a notice on it saying that it was under review. The unions had asked about this. We were told that that the university had been talking to the Office for Students and had concerns that they could have been fined in a similar way to Sussex and for that reason we were told that they were going to change the policy and put some additional wording in it about academic freedom. We were also told that staff networks had been consulted in this as well. We expected to see a copy of it before it was actually published and to be involved in the consultation, but unfortunately a few days later, after an incident on campus, the following day, it appeared and was published. Following that, I wrote to the secretary and asked the secretary for reassurances that actually that staff who are, that that they would do all that they could to protect trans staff and students on campus from harassment as they are supposed to do under the Equality Act 2010. We’ve not heard anything back from the Secretary yet. It’s been 2 1/2 weeks since I sent that e-mail, possibly a few days more than that. I’ve since written again to the university secretary. And I have asked that they reply within seven days. So we’re waiting to hear what they have to say. I think it’s really important that, you know, that we’re very clear that there is still this duty under the Equality Act, and that it’s clear that, you know, trans people on campus should feel safe and happy in their work environment.

Alan

So we know that, like, the political right, or the far right, are keen to kind of stoke these culture wars, in particular at universities, because they know they’ll get push back there and they’re pushing at freedom of expression, and academic freedom to some extent. And you can sort of understand why the university doesn’t want to be in the middle of the culture war. But the impression that I’m getting is that they’re prepared to let trans staff and students er – not protect them sufficiently from harassment so as to avoid getting drawn into this culture war by standing up for them? Is that an oversimplification?

Jenny

I don’t think it is. I think actually that’s that appears to be what has happened, so far, unless there are things working beyond – behind – the scenes that we are not party to any knowledge of. But I want those answers from the secretary, and assurances that they are going to protect people from harassment. The problem is, for the university is, is that if they take one group with protected characteristics and treat them differently from all the other groups with protected characteristics then actually they are also guilty of discrimination.

Alan

That’s very alarming. So when we get a response from the university, we’ll either bring it back to here or we’ll e-mail members about it.

Jenny

We will, yes.

Rachel

Well, we’ll move on now to what’s coming up next. I’m not sure there is as much as usual, but what have we got in the UCU calendar or the LeedsUCU calendar specifically?

Jenny

Well, tomorrow we’ve got a general meeting, but probably well, this podcast will be out the day afterwards. The reason that we’ve had we’ve got a general meeting straight on the heels of the of the AGM is simply just because our AGM was delayed due to the Unite strike. So we’re sort of catching up with ourselves. So, at the next podcast I should have be able to report back on what happened in that general meeting.

Rachel

Great. And then moving through the summer?

Jenny

OK, so moving through the summer, there might actually be an extraordinary meeting coming up regarding a motion that came to Congress about a trade dispute with the Secretary of State. And this is essentially about the funding of higher education and the Higher Education funding model, and about protecting jobs in higher education. And so, I think, committee are mulling over the idea of actually how do we get – how do we allow members in the branch to actually get more information about this and spend a bit of time thinking about this and discussing it? And possibly that that’s best done in an extraordinary meeting and so look out for some news on that coming up.

Alan

OK. Thanks Jenny for bringing us the branch news!

Jenny

Thank you, Jenny!

Jenny

OK, thank you!

[Brief music]

Rachel

That’s all for today’s LeedsUCU podcast. Thank you for listening. Please subscribe on whatever platform you’re listening to us on so you’ll know as soon as we publish our next episode.

Alan

If you work in the University of Leeds in an academic or academic-related professional or managerial role or as a postgraduate student doing paid teaching, and if you’re not yet a member of UCU, head to ucu.org.uk/join to find out more. Wherever you work, make sure you join the union for your workplace.

Rachel

This podcast is made on behalf of the Committee of the University and College Union, University of Leeds Branch. If you have any questions or concerns, please e-mail our branch officers at ucu@leeds.ac.uk. See our website leedsucu.org.uk for alternative contact details and for a transcript of this episode.

This page was last updated on 13 June 2025